@BradyDale @HedgeMage With you there. Haven't found a method that works to get through. Think it just boils down to being ready when they finally realize something doesn't add up. And being compassionate through the process of understanding. :/

@cunningcorvid @BradyDale Compassion is a big, BIG thing. Even the people who share my political ideals too often succumb to being angry with the other side, and choosing to express their ire rather than understanding the opposition.

It sure makes it hard to change minds when you approach them as the enemy.

@HedgeMage I think that's 90% of the problem: lacking compassion and patience. It's what promotes emotional and mental flexibility, enough to not easily give in to tribalism without being considered about it.

And the best way to combat that is to just model it. Something something be the change you want to see.

@HedgeMage @cunningcorvid
I have always been what I'd guess you call a progressive. I used to be one professionally
But the groupthink on the left is really disturbing and I wouldn't be surprised if a real leftie fascism took hold one day.

@BradyDale @cunningcorvid I'm enough of a "classical liberal" or "small-l libertarian" to be comfortable with neither the American left nor right. I find both to be internally inconsistent and plagued by groupthink/tribalism.

I also realize that much of what made me that way are experiences foreign to others, and I'm not sure I always convey those things as well as maybe I could or should.

@HedgeMage @cunningcorvid yeah, I don't really call myself a leftie anymore.
I can never remember what I do call myself?
This kid captured my political philosophy these days pretty well: https://youtu.be/CMNry4PE93Y

@HedgeMage @BradyDale Politically homeless since literally everyone is insane. :P Honestly, just not a fan of saying I follow an ideology, mostly because I don't follow them perfectly. And association brings with it people who will willfully misunderstand you and fight you.

It took a long and careful consideration to declare I was Buddhist, and I've gotten tons of crap for not being perfect since, for example

@cunningcorvid @BradyDale I'm politically homeless as well...it's hard to come up with a rough description that doesn't make others assume wildly untrue things about me. :(

@BradyDale @HedgeMage Time to build a home for those that are homeless? :P

Groups are limiting though and less prone to change than individuals are. Which is fine if you agree with the core ideas of a group, but not so fine if you have even reasonable objections. At least in my experience. Ideally our larger groups would be based around universally recognized logical truths, but humans are so deeply varied it'd be hard to reach full agreement on what those actually are.

Why am I still talking?

@HedgeMage @cunningcorvid
all it takes for a lot of lefties to hate something is for a prominent leftie to say "that's bad."

They don't even have to say it that well or intelligently. Putting a name on it is usually enough.

@HedgeMage @BradyDale @cunningcorvid Too true. Great talk on this: https://www.ted.com/talks/megan_phelps_roper_i_grew_up_in_the_westboro_baptist_church_here_s_why_i_left

@BradyDale @HedgeMage @forteller It's the general take of anyone who has left a cult. Eventually the cognitive dissonance grows too much, leading to doubt and questioning. Being told not to question leads to more doubt. One external compassionate person provides comfort and an escape.

...I love cult escape stories, because I'm odd...